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MattScorpion

Every Day Carry Active Shooter First Aid Kit

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These are a few items I have in my bag - scorpion survival Active Shooter First Aid Kit, This mini Trauma kit is designed to go anywhere while being prepared for everything. Everything in the kit designed to stop bleeding. SWAT-T, ISRAELI PRESSURE DRESSING, Compact Style, OTHER CONTENTS– Compressed Gauze.

Edited by MattScorpion

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Gary_Gough    1,186

I suspect this thread should go here... 

You've put thought into your kits, we understand you want to sell some. So you're insights are valuable, and welcome, your sales links have a place here too, just avoid spam.

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Rick    43

Here's how being prepared can save your life:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/officer-bullet-glock-1.4252937

Without knowing the facts it's impossible to say if this is a candidate for the Barney Fife Award or not. 

A gunsmith I used to go to was shot in the thigh with a .270 by his daughter's boyfriend who was working part-time for him (barely made it).  The kid didn't come around much after that.

Edited by Rick

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zackmars    508
3 hours ago, Rick said:

Here's how being prepared can save your life:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/officer-bullet-glock-1.4252937

Without knowing the facts it's impossible to say if this is a candidate for the Barney Fife Award or not. 

A gunsmith I used to go to was shot in the thigh with a .270 by his daughter's boyfriend who was working part-time for him (barely made it).  The kid didn't come around much after that.

Either he has a super cheap leather/nylon holster that folded in the trigger guard, or he's making stuff up to save face.

 

Good thing they had a tourniquet.

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Gary_Gough    1,186
57 minutes ago, zackmars said:

Either he has a super cheap leather/nylon holster that folded in the trigger guard, or he's making stuff up to save face.

 

Good thing they had a tourniquet.

Bad habits at the least. Round chambered ?

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zackmars    508
13 hours ago, Gary_Gough said:

Bad habits at the least. Round chambered ?

Thats not a bad habit. You may not always have the benefit of time to rack a slide, you may need your other hand to create distance between you and your attacker, or you could even cause a malfunction by trying to manipulate your firearm.

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Gary_Gough    1,186
1 hour ago, zackmars said:

Thats not a bad habit. You may not always have the benefit of time to rack a slide, you may need your other hand to create distance between you and your attacker, or you could even cause a malfunction by trying to manipulate your firearm.

Ok. I can see that if I were living in a war zone and under threat of ambush. This was Winnipeg.

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zackmars    508
2 hours ago, Gary_Gough said:

Ok. I can see that if I were living in a war zone and under threat of ambush. This was Winnipeg.

As a responder, you never get to pick what, or where something happens.

 

The criminal is the one who sets the stage, look at any of the recent terror attacks around the globe, tell me how many took place in war zones?

 

Have you ever heard the term "complacency kills"? Criminals do not stop plying their trade just because of a gate, or a line on a map. Dallas isn't a war zone, yet 5 cops were killed by one man, 6 cops across the US were killed very recently, and they weren't in Fallujah.

 

That's just one example out of many i can drag out.

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Gary_Gough    1,186

Well, Winnipeg has 780,000 people, last year 25 homicides 4 of which involved firearms, and none of those were shootouts with police. If that officer hadn't lived he would have represented a 20% increase in the rate of gun deaths by himself. Responding to a hamburger no less. A hair trigger response has it's own set of pitfalls, people get shot because the officer's defensive response to an imagined threat gets implemented. By all means go in loaded when there is an active shooter but maybe needing that extra 500 milliseconds to load isn't that bad an idea when going for lunch.

We have had police shot here too, in ambushes. They were armed, experienced and the first indication they had of there being anyone there was they had been shot. A side arm vs a sniper behind cover, even if they had been able to return fire I doubt if they could have been effective no matter how fast. 

At least here, the danger of self inflicted injury is much higher then the danger of intentional harm. Planning based on a low probability event is fine, but also being aware of the potential unintended consequences the plan can produce is a worthwhile extension to the process. I know the line is hard to draw and I've heard the debate over when it's appropriate to have a round chambered. I've also had training that covered use of force, which in my case is going to be largely an academic exercise. If I do ever feel I have to, I will be spending a lot of time and paperwork justifying my actions  which is as it should be. The potential to injure or kill another person isn't ever something that should be taken lightly, and that same person that is a threat right now, may well be a worthwhile human given a few hours to sober up or to regain their senses. Still it is always a judgment call and being made under stress.

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zackmars    508
3 hours ago, Gary_Gough said:

Well, Winnipeg has 780,000 people, last year 25 homicides 4 of which involved firearms, and none of those were shootouts with police. If that officer hadn't lived he would have represented a 20% increase in the rate of gun deaths by himself. Responding to a hamburger no less. A hair trigger response has it's own set of pitfalls, people get shot because the officer's defensive response to an imagined threat gets implemented. By all means go in loaded when there is an active shooter but maybe needing that extra 500 milliseconds to load isn't that bad an idea when going for lunch.

We have had police shot here too, in ambushes. They were armed, experienced and the first indication they had of there being anyone there was they had been shot. A side arm vs a sniper behind cover, even if they had been able to return fire I doubt if they could have been effective no matter how fast. 

At least here, the danger of self inflicted injury is much higher then the danger of intentional harm. Planning based on a low probability event is fine, but also being aware of the potential unintended consequences the plan can produce is a worthwhile extension to the process. I know the line is hard to draw and I've heard the debate over when it's appropriate to have a round chambered. I've also had training that covered use of force, which in my case is going to be largely an academic exercise. If I do ever feel I have to, I will be spending a lot of time and paperwork justifying my actions  which is as it should be. The potential to injure or kill another person isn't ever something that should be taken lightly, and that same person that is a threat right now, may well be a worthwhile human given a few hours to sober up or to regain their senses. Still it is always a judgment call and being made under stress.

One in the pipe is hardly a hair trigger response. Cops aren't walking around with the gun in their hand, it's in a holster, often with some form of retention device.

 

And when it can mean the difference between having a caved in head, or with your guts spilling out of your chest?

 

It's more than 500 miliseconds, especially when your other hand is tied up, doing something else.

 

If I'm blocking a guy with a knife, the absolute last thing i want to EVER do is worry about if my rear sight did or did not catch on my belt to load my firearm.

 

Also, it's a horribly terrible idea to constantly mess with your firearm, loading and unloading it for no reason. Not only do you increase the chances of having an ND, you can also cause issues like bullet setback

 

I don't think you quite got the meaning behind the examples i gave. They were just to point out that people get ambushed and killed ALL THE TIME, even in areas that are in no way, shape or form, "war zones".

 

But whatever. I'm out.

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Gary_Gough    1,186

I suspect we are mostly disagreeing on details. Our police carry side arms. For awhile they were required to place those into lockers , unloaded, on entering the building, so unarmed while in arguably one of the likeliest places to have someone wanting to attack them. I thought that was going too far too. It also added one more thing they could forget when being called out, they really are the people I want to show up with a gun at a knife fight :)  I'm just saying the likelihood of accidental discharge drops substantially if the chamber is clear. We really don't get many ambushes, rare enough events that one from 1967 still gets discussed. I've also had a Mexican friend advise me to be careful when crossing USA as "it's a dangerous country" , I was hitch hiking across the Yucatan peninsula at the time. Come to think of it, the only person I know who came close to death in an ambush was in USA at the time, so maybe it's closer to a war zone then not. The different reality could well justify what you advocate. In engineering terms we'd be looking at minimizing failure events, the odds of accidental discharge will be pretty well defined for each make and model of gun ( derringers were an early noteworthy bad example, they only made sense with the hammer resting on a round, so most of the people that got shot were their owners ) The odds of needing to have a gun, ready to fire with one hand, is less well defined but will depend on location, circumstance and culture, so a judgment call ( sort of thing engineers avoid ). That would also be a failure mode if needed and not there.

So there will be times when what you're saying will be spot on.

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Rick    43

As you both know from reading the articles, the officer was an 8 year veteran and a member of the SWAT team and on a firearms training course.  Their protocols and equipment regarding sidearms for the tactical units is no doubt different from that of ordinary patrol officers, since almost everything else is.  I'm sure when they find out what happened it will make the front page just like the shooting did, and any handgun and Glock forums too.

Edit:  I'll qualify that, it will be news on the gun forums if the cause is found to be a defect in the pistol.

Edited by Rick

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Rick    43
9 hours ago, Gary_Gough said:

  :)    We really don't get many ambushes, rare enough events that one from 1967 still gets discussed.

if you don't count the ambushes that killed 5 RCMP in Mayerthorpe Alberta in 2005 and 3 in Moncton New Brunswick in 2014.  I remember being stopped on the highway west of Regina in 1970 after 2 mounties were killed in ambush up in MacDowell and they were all business, one covered our car with a rifle while the other looked in.  The real Sgt Preston was in PA then and headed that investigation.

Edited by Rick
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Gary_Gough    1,186

I'd add Spiritwood in 2006 to the list even if that was a response to a domestic dispute. Mayerthorpe was the classic ambush, the constables walking into a trap when conducting a drug search, and was the single worst police event ever. I'd also add the 1989 École Polytechnique massacre as I wasn't limiting to police shootings.  Still, you notice we can come up with a fairly complete list from memory, rare enough events that they don't just fade into common everyday acceptance.

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Rick    43

I was just listing fatal ambushes of RCMP,  what was the ambush in 1967?  I don't remember.

Edited by Rick

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Rick    43

Found it, Shell Lake.  Victor Hoffman was arrested at his parent's house and offered no resistance.  

It's possible for police to be ambushed even when they know there is a dangerous suspect right in front of them.  In 1987 when I was in Vancouver there was a SWAT member killed immediately on entering an apartment on a drug raid..  The man they were after had a police radio and knew exactly when the door was coming down, shot the first officer in the head with a rifle, wounded the second one,  then died in the return fire.  They never thought he would be waiting for them and already aiming in the doorway.  I'm sure that case comes up on every VPD training course.

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Gary_Gough    1,186

Yeah that was the one, Guess my memory has holes too :P  . The scanners are less common now with the switch to the AP25 encoding the price is up around $700 , but there is always something new. Streaming video potentially could give even more detailed information about where and when things are happening. For that matter wireless cameras are under $30 and are about 2 cm cubes , not a challenge to monitor your own entrances. "Radar" ( actually RF field ) motion sensors are about $3 each. Those will work through walls. If someone is serious about it, it would be very hard to sneak up on them.

Can't really depend on having surprise on your side. Probably time for the police to be looking at countermeasures before it bites someplace too.

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